C. Delgado : So, if we are speaking about pedagogy, there are the professionals of pedagogy, which is a pedagogista. In Italy, another professionalist of pedagogy is what in Italy they call "educatore" which is not the teacher. It's a figure that is in the middle between the teacher and the pedagogista, and we can talk later more about that figure that's not very known in Canada. But if you think about the pedagogista as the professionalist of pedagogy, uh, the interest that the pedagogista has is to think about different trajectories, different processes that can help create the conditions for those subjects to be in relationship with the complexity of the context in which they exist. The pedagogista is someone that is thinking about ... S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : The pedagogista or, she says, not only the pedagogista, they could be even a teacher. It has always already a concept of how or who is a human, who is a child. So we always start, we always carry an idea of the human. S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says, so, for example: what is my image of the child? Who is the child I have in front of me? Is a child that I have to just fill with information? Is a child that has to think as I want them to think? Or is a competent child; a child that can be a free thinker? S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says, this is just to say two images, but very much so, you may know that based on how I think the child, based on how I think the human I will proceed as an educator. S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : So, there, for me, when I think about the relationship between pedagogy and ethics, it's always related to this question of "what is the concept of the human that I hold?". And that through that conception I form and shape the relationships that I create. S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says, for example, - and she knows that this is a weird concept for us in Canada - when we say we, we care for children, as we talk of education and care, when we say "we care for children", what is it that we are saying with this care? She says: are we speaking about assist-entialism? This is the best way I can translate that. Um, where we are just making sure that they are healthy and safe or are we... S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : Or I am, we're in a situation where care means to listen; care means to be in response to the other? S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She uses a word, in Italian, that is "formazione". The best way I can translate is as "formation". And I hope that this helps. And she said, so when we form our pedagogisti, in the universities in Italy... S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : ...The first thing that we do is to ask them: what is your concept of the human? What is your concept of the child? S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says one of the first things that you do in general pedagogy is to think about what are the philosophies, what are the ways that you think the world, the ways you think the child, because, we then create a collective that is not just one person thinking as such, there is then a collective that is thinking as such and is forming a discourse S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : Therefore, when we are in the university we try to create a common discourse or common understanding of how we think about in this case about the child. But then we move to the question of why do we educate and how do we educate S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : And this is why a pedagogista, and she says, a teacher too, is a researcher because they need to understand, they need to think through and with S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says, I am assuming that everybody that is a teacher here knows this already. S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : She says, I'm sure that you know that it is not enough to have a set of ideas that you are going to apply and give it to the children as a trajectory to follow with children and in a simple application, I'm sure that you know that that is not the work of a teacher, or of a pedagogista, or of an educator. Uh, the relationship between the pedagogista and the family is extremely important and it's important that the pedagogista has an understanding of the history of the family and also perhaps of the problems in the family, but not because the pedagogista's role is to solve them, but it's more because the pedagogista that can have that story, the stories, that help then in being in relationship with the child and also in helping the child respond and be in relationship with others. If the child is already fully competent, why are you there? S. Calaprice: [Italian] C. Delgado : If a child has already all the abilities, why are you there? R. Khattar : Thank you so much - that's a very beautiful way for us to be thinking in a very pedagogically, coherent way for us to be thinking in Ontario and beyond. Thank you so much for that. You, you crystallized the delineation between that realm of psychology and the realm of pedagogy very, very well and it's maybe a very new idea to many people. So I think that we need to think about it and linger with it because we have been talking in Ontario about the competent child. But the way that you articulate that and the way that you articulate what it is to be in relationship in the world is quite profound, and requires us to, to do some rethinking of what we think pedagogy is and what the teacher is and who the child is. Thank you.